Emperor Is Naked: Secret Uganda Tape Of Police Chief Said To Expose Power Struggle Between President Museveni And Prime Minister Mbabazi
Prime Minister Mbabazi -- does he have upperhand for now?
It's hard to deny an ongoing war to the end with his prime minister after a secretly recorded tape recording of a conversation was exposed as Uganda's dictator Yoweri Museveni is finding out.
In Turkey, when audio was posted on social media, alleging that Turkish strongman, prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his son had diverted tens of millions of dollars the president simply shut down YouTube and Facebook. Still, it doesn't mean Erdogan's troubles will disappear. Millions of Turkish citizens can access social media by using external hosting sites.
In Uganda a similar and perhaps more threatening scandal has erupted. For the past several months, a not-so-subtle power struggle between Gen. Museveni and his prime minister, Amama Mbabazi, has emerged to the fore.
The two had tried to downplay the split with both occasionally accusing media of exaggerations. Meanwhile Mbabazi's wife Jacqueline has been very vocal in his defense, offering interviews to local media there.
Now it's impossible for Mbabazi and Museveni to downplay their war.
Tens of thousands of Ugandans have for the past few days been listening to and sharing audio and a transcribed version of a purported taped conversation between the country's Police Chief, Gen. Kale Kayihura, and an individual said to have been approached by Mbabazi's wife, who wanted him to mobilize on behalf of her husbands prospective presidential bid down the line.
Kasirivu Alex, an NRM party chief who claims he was approached by Mbabazi's wife, also is heard telling Gen. Kayihura that Mbabazi has already built a powerful and loyal network of support. Even more potent than dictator Museveni's.
Mbabazi and Museveni are currently at loggerheads, heading to the 2016 election. As Secretary General of the country's National Resistance Movement (NRM) party Mbabazi amassed great political influence in the last few years. Even though the NRM was supposed to elect its standard bearer for the 2016 vote next year, Gen. Museveni panicked and in February held a party caucus gathering and forced delegates to sign a "petition" declaring that he alone should be the party's candidate in 2016.
The move was blasted by Mbabazi's wife who effectively said it was null and void since it violated the NRM constitution.
For the time being, Mbabazi has in effect usurped the powers -- but not the office -- of the president.
Many observers of Uganda's political history believe that Mbabazi and Museveni will each try to take down the other way before the 2016 vote. A well-placed Ugandan says: "I'm not a betting man; but if I was a betting man, I would say Museveni won't survive this year as president."
The notorious Gen. Kayihura is Gen. Museveni's enforcer; he's the type who in Mafia movies would send goons to break the knees, or the necks, of opponents. He's lately been arresting anyone suspecting of being willing to campaign for a Mbabazi presidential bid. Jacqueline Mbabazi has accused Kayihura of hiring "thugs" to arrest innocents and of abusing the police force for partisan political aims.
With the passage of the overlooked sinister Public Order Management law, which bans the assembly of three or more Ugandans without obtaining prior police consent, and the wiretapping of ordinary people, the country has become a total police state.
But in an interesting twist, now the police chief Kayihura himself has been apparently secretly taped. The transcript below purportedly captures his conversation with Alex, the NRM functionary party. Also in the conversation is Sebina Sekitoleko, who doesn't feature prominently, but is allied with Kayihura. The police chief wanted Kasirivu Alex to spy on Mbabazi.
It's widely believed that the Mbabazis have plenty of even more damaging recordings, including of President Museveni himself. The prime minister has worked with Museveni for decades, from the days when they were colleagues in their guerrilla army.
Additionally, Mbabazi has support among some of the key opposition political leaders. Yet, he can rest assured that Gen. Museveni is also observing the chess board and plotting his next strike.
KK= Gen. Kale Kayihura
SS= Sebina Sekitoleko (Kayihura ally)
KA= Kasirivu Alex (NRM functionary)
KK: There is somebody very---you should teach them how to cover themselves, so that they hide themselves. –Gwe Sebina-Temukyali bayekela?SS: That one doesn’t fear.
KK: It is not the fe...ar. Rebellion is not fear. Put on the hat and spectacles so that you are not noticed.KA: Yes sir. How are you sir?
KK: I ma fine. How are you? Let’s go through this quickly.KK: Yes sir.
KA: Maybe you didn’t get my name very well, Kasirivu Alex.. I am the current NRM chairman in Kayunga.
KK: Ok. Chairman?KA: Eeh
KK: Chairperson NRM?KA: Yes sir, NRMKA: I thank you for the time you accorded us when we first came to meet you even when you are very busy. Even when I left, I knew that was it---for my government.KK: Uuuuh
KA: These things I have been doing; I would say I have been doing them for my well being; I have a hard times, we have problems. We have been going through this but I am sure I have been working together with them because of financial problems we all go through.
I thank you for not showing suspicion with me the first time I came to meet you. I have been working for NRM for long, for its good. This is the fourth time we are meeting. Once we met in Kayunga over land matters.
KA: In Kayunga before this time, recently, the second time we met with NantabaKK: That‘s true
KA: The then RDC was at first a Deputy---he used to work with and---we used to go to Kayonza together, and I was with them for some months---after which the Bugerere riots which were pro Kabaka took effect.KK: OK
KA: I have been doing a lot of work; the truth is I am very rare.KK: OKKK: OK
KA: We would have been working---this is not the first time. I have come before you to show that I am willing to work with the government. I am now serving the third term for this youth post. I am one of those who founded --- Movement Brothers Forum and others. I have brought this forward to show you that I have been working with the government and I really love it. ---KK: Which family?
KA: Rt. Hon. Amama Mbabazi’s, they came to my home.KK: Who?
KA: Madam,KK: Which Madam?
KA: Madam Jacqueline Mbabazi drove to my home. She came with her daughter Nina Mbabazi.KK: Uuuh. When?
KA: It was last year 2013, and they had come to apologize to me because I was one of those who solicited for signatures to bring Hon Mbabazi for his other term as Secretary General in 2005. They told me they were sorry -- that I may be annoyed at them ---and I said yes---from the time they took you to China to do some work as the youth league. But wer are sorry for what happened. But we have a new mission we would like to commence.KK: Uuuh.
KA: I told them it is OK. I don’t have any problem. You see, this is the situation we all live in. What I will say to you is that I didn’t study a lot but I went to school. I look after my family and I am a guardian to many. When you hear that I am the chairman for movement, ---they think movement--- but it is not true. The party does not have money but we work for its good.KK: Uuuh.
KA: We did not interact a lot but---but she told me that there is a man who was working for her but he diverted.KK: Uuuh?
KA: That man is called Sebina SekitolekoKK: Uuuh.
KA: We have been working with many people here in Buganda.KK: Uuuh.
KA: We were not getting what we really worked for. But we have come so you may help us work within Buganda. When we did our research, we found out that we would be able to mobilize in Buganda because we have been around; working for the NRM and the President but the situation hasn’t been good; so we wanted to create an environment that everyone would be proud of. I told him I would think about it and as we were still there, he sent Adam Luzindana my neighbor in Kayunga. We are just separated by fences.KK: Hold on, repeat that. What did they tell you to do?
KA: They told me to comeKK: Uuuh
KA: And help themKK: Help them with what?
KA: To help canvass support for Hon. Amama Mbabazi in NRM and among the local peopleKK: Support for what?
KA: So that he becomes as NRM chairman and the president of Uganda come 2016KK: They told you that?
KA: That is the truth. I am not a liar.KK: Who told you that?
KA: MadamKK: Which Madam?KA: Jacqueline Mbabazi
KK: Did she come with someone else?KA: She was with her daughter
KK: And were you alone?KA: On meeting me at home, the first, time, it was Adam Luzindana
KK: Who was with Madam?KA: Madam came with her tall driver in a black land cruiser. It was UAN; I did not get the other numbers
KK: Hold on. What was the tall driver putting on?KA: He was putting on black clothes. He had an army officer and they were also two. Adam came in a Benz.
KK: Who else did Madam come with?KA: Upon reaching my home, she was all alone
KK: How about he girl and the officer?KA: It was the officer and the daughter, Nina Mbabazi. Nina told her that they had for long been working with Kasirivu and according our research, he is the right person we can work with for our job in Buganda region.
KK: UuuuhSS: What job?KK: He said it. Let him talk.KA: The job of NRM chairmanship and becoming President. Afande, I wasn’t a bad person, like you know the situation. The first time they came to my home, I wasn’t doing well financially.KK: Uuuh
KA: I have been engaged in farming. ---network, they were also part of it. I was the chairman of NRM in Kayunga and Mukono and the National Media Network.KK: UuuhKA: I wasn’t well financially. So he got me some moneyKK: How much?
KA: 10MillionKK: 10 million?KA: Yes, he told me that I should first look for all Buganda contacts.KK: Didn’t you ask him why---?KA: I am coming to thatKK: OK
KA: But I told him, we need to handle this matter slowly. I did it in fear. I used to think Hon. Mbabazi and President Museveni are one.KK: Are one?KA: Yes. He told me my son, we shall handle these things. Just like you have been working for him but he does not pay you. All of you are frustrated right from the grassroot.KK: Uuuh
KA: He said he is serving the second term and we are in multi party politics but for us, we have worked with this man ever since we started since FRONASA but he is not good. He is not trustworthy. He is undependable.KK: Uuuh
KA: --- But our lives depend on security. Right now, I have been mobilizing all my people but if they discover us, through out all the meetings, we shall convene; you will see that we’ll be working with many people in government and in the security circles at ago. I told him to give me some time to think about it. I told him I would come. Then he let me be. When I sat down, I had many thoughts. The first thought was about my fellow people I have been working with. They would tell me, Kasirivu, do this that and that. Security---- I would see that some of them won’t be allies in this- -- to disseminate my message. I thought of Hon. Kibuule and others but during that time, I had many disagreements with Hon. Kibuule.
I have grown up with him, he is my friend, we slept in the same house together and all, he had gotten me a car to buy to help me at me farm. I owed them 7M of 32M. I do farming like I had said.
They told him that Kasirivu is doing mischievous things. There are things he has been doing; whether he is working with you or the government or the President him self, he wasn’t sure. He said he would withdraw his support from me.
KK: Who?KA: Hon. Kibuule. What I will do, I will cut him off.KK: Who?KA: From me, Kasirivu.KK: Uuuh
KA: He said if he withdrew his support from me, he would be frustrated then he will come and tell me. But because I had worked with him for long, we had done together many thing s but personally, I wasn’t benefitting from this. I would go for many missions and I accomplish them successfully but as a person, I wasn’t benefitting but I was doing all that for the good of our government.KK: Uuuh
KA: I said this time I would tell him. When I thought about it, I called him up to ten times but he couldn’t pick me up. I went to --- I told him I have come, some people have come to me with a mission against President Museveni. I am not happy. The President has promised me so many things though I have not yet got anything but --- I wish there was an alternative. If there can be any, we meet the President and I let him know. They either give me a go ahead or stop me. That was in September.
KK: Last year?KA: Yes last year. Sseguja told me that what you do, take my son and plant him there; he is called Abbas Ssozi, the Mukono NRM Youth chairman. I told him Abbas is not known. He is one of the youth I have been fronting and we had met Mbabazi several times. I told him Abbas might not do the work as we desire it to be.KK: Uuuh
KA: He told me that you know what Kasirivu that is what I want. I feared that and out of my fear, I told him I wasn’t able to help him this time. Instead of consulting me more, they created a battle with Kasirivu. I told them I have been working with you and I know how the government operates. I decided to disappear from them.KK: From whom?KA: From ---I.O---anotherKK: Ok. I get you
KA: I told them you never know one day I will be able to find any loophole and I said I wouldn’t do this on my own and I wouldn’t do it without the government’s knowledgeKK: Uuuh
KA: I can’t do that according to the intelligence because they will discover meKK: Uuuh
KA: And it will kill me if they ask me why I knew but never spokeKK: Uuuh
KA: Yet they will ask why I never reported yet I can’t just report in a situation like thisKK: UuuhKA: Because as we have been working, if I just secede from the others, and I start to think I have no option, the others who have deployed me will also be observing me. I have deployed many youths and you have been working with some of them like Hassan Mu---KK: Uuuh.
KK: The NRM cadres---KA: Yes. You have been working with themKK: But openly
KA: But the problem is that some of them have been two-timing. They come that side for information but take it the other side like Hassan Muwanvu KK: In what way?KA: Many things have been going on;KK: Uuuh
KA: Because the last time I worked with him, I actually found he had just dropped Madam. I asked him that Hassan, usually when I have not deployed you, you mean you have also been coming to madam? He said no, I have been coming. Then madam told me not to worry because he was fronted and that he is a friend to Gen K.K.KK: Oooh
KA: Maybe he can explain to you but he said no, these things are moving forward. You see, we took some youths last night and Gen Kale took their statements plus mine. Then madam told me that there is one mean soldier so I should take precaution when ever I travel.KK: Uuuh
KA: That the soldier is light skinned and he is called MilondoKK: Uuuh
KA: The people he takes come from me but because I don’t trust him, I deploy my spies. At the new office of the IGP Naguru, there is a restaurant oppositeKK: Ooh
KA: She told me that I want you to go there tomorrow if you can because I have deployed him on a new missionKK: Ooh
KA: Go and watch him if he goes directly inside there. She told me she has been watching him and he is a good boy because he has since observed him.KK: Uuuh
KA: And sometimes, we deploy in his board room. So before I proceed, I would like you to check especially in your boardroom for peole who just come in to spy on you, people meet or visit you. Sometimes Hassan Muwanvu comes to meet you on purpose but takes his time.KK: Oh yes.
KA: He notes each and every person that enters your office and then goes back to report. Because today, forgive me for saying this but Madam is in the UK and she called me at 4.30 and told me Kasirivu, be strong, they are searching for you and Kimuli. Kimuli has called me that Kataratambi is looking for him that he is armed.I want to speak the truth that we have never armed Kimuli. I wanted to find out what happens in the office of the IGP and upon calling Hassan Muwanvu, he told me the IGP is in Masindi and I am also taking him a delegation. And she just sent me to Nsambya at a fuel station to fill up my car and drop her some people but I have not yet met those people.
KK: You haven’t met them?KA: Yes. But I already have the fuel. And she said I should do her one more job; take a picture of the book at the manager’s office; she said that; use your phoneKK: Which manager?KA: At the office of the fuel station in Nsambya. Use your phone and keep that photo for me so that we print it in the newspapers that there are cars Kayihura fuels.KK: Uuuh
KA: We need to confirm if he gives fuel to only police cars or he also gives his other protégés. Hassan told her he will just write them down because it is not possible for him take the photo. But she told me that she doubts Hassan; that any wise person can take that photo without the manager having to know. He has failed my task today but I don to know why yet.KK: Uuuh
KK: But he told me he noted all the cars on that list that consumes fuel at that station and that he will give it to her when she comes back on Friday at 4PMKK: Tomorrow?KA: That is it. I would like you to be ready because Kataratambi is looking for you and it is Hon. Kibuule that has set that mission.KK: Uuuh
KK: That Kimuli is together with Sseguja’s son, Abbas Ssozi and when they demanded for money, such a situation arose.KK: Uuuh
KA: I have wanted to give you information that some people you work with are already working the other side.I have been doing my job well and madam won’t hesitate to call me to update me on anything. She told me she has helped me a lot and that she will replace Sebina with me because I am swift and trustworthy. I told her I am grateful but I have been discontent ever since my home was torchedKK: When?Ka: During the Buganda riot.KK: Yes Yes
KA: I can withstand everything even if it meant death, I wouldn’t talk. I knocked on your door and briefed you and Hon. Kibuule but you have never met me since then. I saw that my home was at the verge of being torched. I am the one who sat in Lt. Musinguzi’s car who was the ---. I am the one who blocked all the roads and briefed Afande Turyagumanawe with all the information.KK: Eeeeh
KA: I did all that for the good of the government but I am not happy Afande but I just cannot quit. I will continue working in this situation. I have accomplished a lot but been paid nothing.KK: Uuuh
KA: That is not the most important thing; the most important thing is to devise means of moving together.KK: UuuhKA: When I was on my way here, like I told you it is a network;KK: Uuuh
KA: I displayed list of names and phone numbers; something she has never seen.KK: UuuhKA: Ever since I started to work with her, I told her you can’t work without the other people’s contacts. The NRM Secretariat does not have an NRM Communication Bureau. The NRM Communication Bureau only had a few phone numbers of mobilizes and chairmen.KK: UuuhKA: I told her if we are to arrange it, we must have phone numbers of every cadre. Like in Buganda, we have around 2000 plus delegates; give me a chance to first traverse and get these contacts so that in our discussion, we may get to know their opinions.
Fore example, In Luweero district, I must have every cadre’s or councilor’s contacts. We have all phone contacts of the NRM Executive. This one hosted the vice president at the shore of the lake ---I heard that the vice president went to his home in Ekokotomi but I was not given any time. I tried to follow up to Natyole at the catholic seminary. We went to the same bar but he didn’t give me any time to discuss with him. I didn’t want his money but I only wanted to tell him something wasn’t right.KK: Uuuh
KA: Now what is the way forward, because I have the data base and I can reach everyone; I even have the samples.SS: Afande, you know who is working? It was Rebecca our former woman MP and Gen. Aronda---KK:Uuuh?
SS: It was Reecca and General Aronda--KA:You have seen Rebecca’s signature. Rebecca, the former woman MP and I have been in several meetings with them and Gen Aronda and former CMI boss.KK:You mean Mugira?They assured me that they would provide us with security.KK: For NRM or?
KA: This thing you are in Afande doesn’t stop here.KK: What you mean is that Gen Aronda and Brig.Mugira are part of this?
KA: They are within. Very many of them. Even within ISO where you work. This one was asking me whether I have some information I can give but I said would give it later for right now, I don’t have it. I want a straightforward strategy where I can work for you and produce clean results based on truth. Because he too is part of them with his protégés and they have their phone contacts.KK: When were they given to you?KK: I have been working on deploymentsSS: With whom do you work in Luweero?KA: We have Hon. Byandala in Luweero. We used to work with him.
KK: Would you do it as NRM mobilization?KA: Yes, as NRM mobilization.KK: OkKA: They were focusing on the fact that if NRM delegates conference sits and all the people are contented, even if Mzee does whatever it takes, he can never win their hearts. They suggested that they invest money in canvassing support as NRM leaders; but an NRM leader will stop at seeing Mzee in Namboole but will never see him again.
KK: Is that he strategy you have been employing?KA: Yes. Those cards they print during Christmas and you think they are from Nkrumah; it is not true, New Vision prints those cards for Kampala region. If you doubt me, I will bring you the cards I didn’t distribute, in good faith; cards which are not less than 100, in New Vision print and brand as sealed. I will do it.
KK: We heard that there was a package as well?KA: Some got money.KK: Like who?KA: I was the project’s initiator. Those who received money, for example in Luweero, Hon. Rebecca, her husband is the district chairman, --- Camilla. Such got money. For those we thought that if they received a card from the Secretary General, they would be excited; we did exactly that and the cards were distributed.I personally delivered those cards, Nantaba delivered those for the western region, another youth called Musiime also delivered, ---Patrick delivered to the north, Kimuli to eastern and ---delivered in Budaka district and many others.
I brought this issue up so that we look for these people and incase they are required, and then it is easy. These things have been supplied through DISOs and with speakers and councilors of districts. I got this list recently and these are district councilors with their contacts; they would go as delegates to Namboole. This is from DISO Rakai.
KK: Who is the DISO Rakai?SS: He is called Ronnie Mukasa Ssali. He was a deputy in --- a tall man.KA: Yes. This is a sample. I will go back and compile all of them.KK: Uuuh. Thank you
SS: At least there is evidence. He works with that man – the ADC who was in PGB. He is called Ceaser Kalema. They are friends. He ran away. But like you know Mzee, he granted him amnesty.KA: These things you see, some are amongst you. Even in security, they are there. Some you work with them in police. Madam calls them and tells them to send cars for fuelling.
KK: Now do you have their names?KA: I will get them all for you. Because for these ones, it is Katabazi who calls them. Katabazi is still in ISO. Where you are. When I am going to travel, he is the one who connects me in districts and directs me who to work with. There is a way I will work on this.
KK: UuuhKA: I will bring you all the names of all those you work with in police.KK: Thank you very much.
KA: All those in ISO. I have told him. For example, I am from Kayunga, the Kayunga DISO and his deputy; I told him the two are divided.KK: UuuhKK: The DISO and his Deputy. The Deputy is loyal to government but the DISO is a mole.KK: Uuuh
KA: The DISO Gomba gives me all these records I have of Gombya.---PoliceKA: These things we can handle.KK: Very good.
KA: We can handle. If you really want me Kasirivu to work with you, I willKK: Very good
KA: And as I move, I will do you a very good job and I will be able to tell you who to remove or add because I have all the recordsI will tell you who to pick out or addKK: It’s ok, It’s ok
KA: Because when we started this thing, do not think this is for the delegates conference. Each district has a target. The targeted people are district councilors, district NRM executive, LC3, movement NRM chairperson Local council 3, possible replacements that if one wins, they are able to identify another who will stand against the other and incase he is successful, he knows who to work with, with the assurance that he has all the facilitation.
SS: So who is against me in Luweero?KA: He is not focused so much on that Especially NRM. He is leaning on parliament, councilors, local council 3s, and then influential political figures in each district we have been moving with. I will produce to you the entire records like we have been travelling. Then we will also look for opinion leaders who are targeted and some of them are religious heads.
We have been meeting some of them and they have counseled us. Some of them have been advising us; for instance the Kampala Archbishop. That I won’t lie to you.
KK: The catholic archbishop?KA: The catholic archbishop Cyprian Lwanga, then the recent one for---, the Anglican bishop, Bishop Niringiye.
KK: The one who resigned?KK: That is Ntagali, I repeat this; they had tea at Amama Mbabazi’s home last Saturday and Archbishop was there. He came and by the time we reached his home, they were there the two of them. He even asked him to pray for his boys so that they may do their work very well.
KK: Who and who?KA: That Bishop and the Rt Hon Amama Mbabazi
KK: UuuhKA: What I am trying to say is that religious leaders especially Catholics are supportiveKK: On whose side?
KA: Plus the MPs, the government must be careful. They are always in meetings; because the chance I have been given is that I have been given power over an entire region; Buganda. I am in charge. Like I told you the other time. She told me that when she was grilled, she also grilled him. That when he tried to shout at him, she also shouted at him.
KK: What? Repeat for meKA: That the President summoned herKK: In the absence of Hon Mbabazi?KA: Yes, and asked her why she is involved in all these mischievous things and she replied him that I do that because you undermine my husband. She told me that she was very contented for having said her mind over Kayihura. That the President told her that Kayihura is a full General but she said that I don’t care and also told him that the recordings they are playing are hers; those are my signatures
KK: She told Mzee?KA: Yes. And I am still doing exactly that and nothing will stop me. Then she told me, my sons, be strong. He thought he would shake me but he found me very strong; so be strong too.
KK: Uuuh?KA: Because we are in full control. We are in control of all the security agencies, we shall be informed incase of anything. We have spies the other side, and this side. Just be strong and do the work. But honestly, some of us are there but not comfortable. Because we know very well the State machinery and State power. We know we are nothing when the State decides to crush us. But they are on the ground and busy establishing their strengthKK: Uuuh
KA: The people; in every district, there are ten people doing the work, the same at the sub county and each parish and village as we talk now. The message they are moving around is a hopeful message. When Kyankwazi came in, the message became stronger and people were informed that when they go to Namboole, they should resist the Kyankwazi decision. Just Stay put.
KK: Who wrote this?KA: This is done by many of his protégés--- the Severinos
KK: Severino?KA: ---Severino. You must know him. He is a lawyer---
SS: That one who represented Mbabazi in their oil case and was given how many billions---KK: Uuuuh
KK: They draft these papers but still quote the NRM constitution to show to the people that power belongs to them and that they can change the status quo.KK: Uuuh
KK: You do not gain, the billions go to the MPs, when they come to you for votes, show them fireKK: So they are mobilizing at the grass roots?
KA: That is why I wanted to meet the President and that is one of the reasons. Like they have been in Entebbe and the MPs are not in parliament. To be sincere, they fear to go back. The people will say a lot because people now have a lot of expectations that if Mbabazi keeps in the race to context with Museveni, both will draw money. The President will bring in money and Mbabazi will bring in money.
When madam meets her people, she assures them that it will be possible because they have support form some western countries and some organizations
KK: In which countries?KA: UK and China
KK: Support from the leaders or just the people?KA: The countries where they expect to get funding from. As of now, she is out
KK: Who?KA: Madam. I don’t know whether you are aware.
KK: I heard of it.KA: She said that next week, you will look for people but their phones will ever be busy---you will look for Katabazi but his phone won’t be on--- because she went to pick those phones.
KK: The issue of which phones?KA: I was trying to explain but I think he never got me well. Today, when I Kasirivu are making a call, you can tap me and know who I am communicating with but with this communication, every district will have its own phones which you won’t be able to monitor.
KK: Which we can’t monitor, really?KA: I am telling you the truth. When they are here, I will inform you they are here now
KK: Are they from China?KA: Yes. She told me she will reach by Friday and that on Saturday, I should mobilize all the people and after the Entebbe resolution, we start on plan b.
KK: UuuhKA: That means by Saturday, those phones will have arrivedKK: But how are they arriving?KA: They must be coming on the plane though I do not know exactly how they will arrive. But you will get to know who she travelled with ad how many people.Next, you should monitor the Ministry of Internal Affairs because of the passport issue. I do not know whether the former system has changed----
KK: UuuhKA: Because at Internal Affairs, some people issue quick passports. She makes for people quick passports; when she wants some people to be part of a certain delegation, she will make
KK: UuuhKA: And someone will have a passport in one day. I am telling you the truth.KK: Uuuh
KA: With in one dayKK: Now, who made the other draft of the petition?KA: The lawyers.KK: Uuuh
KA: They made itKK: Under whose instructions?KA: From homeSS: Whose home?KA: Madam and Afande?KK: Which Afande?KA: Amama Mbabazi
KK: You heard him give instructionsKA: Afande, I cannot give you false information because I am here--- because I know I can gain form this and save my life and if I lie to the State, that is another crime.
KK: Thank you very much.SS: Were you there when he was issuing instructions?
KA: Mr. Sebina, you know me and I am not that person who has a loose tongue and it is really hard for someone to extract a word from me. Actually most people do not know who Kasirivu is yet I have done and accomplished very many things. We sat together on the verandah and I for one went with Severino to that 11th floor at European UnionSS: What is the name of the building?KA: It is at the European Union, I am not very sure of the building. As you leave the Media Centre to UBCSS: Crested Towers?KA: Yes, Crested Towers. Up there. Even when he called; when ne pressed the printer, it gave out three papers. When I was still reading, he received a phone call and then I plucked out a paper are and hastily hid it.KK: Uuuh. So what is this on the paper because I can see some space down here?
Ka: Those spaces?KK: Uuuh
KA: Now, among those people, those are the delegatesKK: Ok, so those are the delegates?KA: Those are the delegates. They first looked for signatures of all these people who will attend but they have been made to think that this is the only chance they are left with.KK: Uuuh
KA: To eat this government’s money. That those bags of money he takes to Busoga to give out to the people, it is their chance because it is with in the law.KK: Uuuh
KA: So now these lawyers will file their case basing on this petitionKK: Uuuuh
KA: The members of the delegates conference have petitioned saying that what has been decided by the NRM parliamentary caucus is wrongKK: Ok
KA: Just like they have highlighted it below; the role of the NRM parliamentary caucus and who can endorse who.KK: OkKK: They are waiting for the delegates conference and I can assure you it will be chaos. I can tell you this Afande without hiding anything.KK: Uuuh
KA: Because they are fully organized and the project on the ground today is that they should meet in delegates but that is nonsense because people believe and are waiting for NamboooleKK: But now, how would you advise Mzee/ we shall arrange and you meet him. How would you advise him?KA: What I advise Mzee is just one thing; basing on the knowledge I have on the other side; because what I want to say to you Afande is I do not really know whether the money comes from here or not.KK: Uuuuh
KA: But what I can say is that they really have the money and that is why some people had started to be intrigued. They have the money.KK: UuuhKA: I am suggesting that before the delegates conference,
KK: Do they give money at the grass roots?KA: They give money at the grassroot AfandeKK: Ok. What do they tell them?
KA: To continue mobilizing because at the district, they will mobilize Sub counties, the sub counties will mobilize the parishes who will mobilize villages. Now when you incite those that have come for the delegates conference in Namboole, 30 from the village and 30 from the parishes will go and convince because in the NRM structure, we have 30 people at every level that campaign for Mzee but the 30 at village level have already been mobilized and told that ever since you campaigned and voted him, what has he done for you?KK: Uuuh
KA: What has he gained you, why are you being insulted? That is the same message for the 30 at the Parish, sub county and district level. What I suggest is that we first identify all the mobilizers we have at the district levelKK: Uuuh
KA: It is easy to identify the chairmen and I can give you an example from my area and his; Hajj Mulungi and Hajj--- Mulungi would want to but he doesn’t travel. He takes the message from State House but does not convey it. We have to identify this with an iron hand I used on such people. In his own area, Rebecca and company are not happy.
This one is on the executive of Luweero District together with Hajj Nadduli and Nalubega Carol; Hajj Malumba who is the secretary, Eng. Byandala and Sebina Sekitoleko. Today there are those who think that he has a certain kind of immunity in NRM and when he quits, they won’t look at his achievements for the NRM but will only pinpoint at others. So if we identify those who are loyal cadres, by the time one comes up with such an idea, they will reject it.
KK: Now, I am going to see whether it will be possible that you meet Mzee, but do you have time?KA: I don’t have any problem
KK: We meet on Sunday. The meeting will be over and we will then see the way forwardSS: ---Afande-----even in town, they are just coumflaging
KK: When you talk of town, which part of town?KA: You know I do not want, let me request you to—KK: Uuuuh
Ka: Afande, I am doing these things for the good of all of us but I have a familyKK: OKSS: That is what I was also saying
KA: I can be a rebel but I ask for protection for my familyKK: Now let us do like this; if you want it, I will give it to youKA: Because these people we work with are not god peopleKK: True
KA: Incase they get to learn of any leakage, you see even as we walk, they are monitoring us.KK: So we give you a ha
KA: Afande, I will stay in my demeanor but---KK: So we should be rebels---UuuuhKA: Don’t think these people are simple
KK: Let us meet on Sunday, you bring me all you have, we photocopy themKA: UuuhKK: And submitKA: I will prepare you a good report different from what you seeKK: Thank you very much
KA: I will prepare everything for you. You see what I am telling you; this Rebecca had told me--- but we can’t trust her anymoreKA: Rebecca told me that Muhoozi is datingSS: That Muhoozi is dating the Luweero Woman MPKK: Who is this woman MPSS: That this girl NabukenyaKA: Nabukenya. So the people took it ---because they are the ones, with Sebina, they ----
SS: They say that there is a linkage between you and Brig. Muhoozi that he dates that girlKA: And that you frustrated her case at the Court of AppealKK: Naye, I thought we were the ones who helpedSS: But that’s what Mbabazi says, he is naive
KK: But why don’t you meet and explain to her?SS: Actually, Afande, this is my taskKA: And the husband is the vice chairmanKK: You are in Luweero with herKA: Afande there is no district I do not know.SS: --- That during elections, they arrested the returning officer--- actually I will summon her before the board
KK: I am the one who helped her. It is like Nantaba. We helped Nantaba but she later turned against meKA: Afande, these people do not tell you. I even told the President openly. Nantaba is my sister. We are from the same clan, our fathers are brothers. I am the one who picked her from Namaganda Plaza to outset Naiga Sekabira.
We were on mission with Moses Byaruhanga and even those Karangwas know it very well. I picked her. We had got disagreements with Naiga who had lied to the President in Entebbe caucus that the Kabaka had brought the youths chicken for poultry and that government has never done anything to help. I told Naiga that she wasn’t right. I identified Nantaba when she had an FDC card. I want us to meet the President and he summons Nantaba too and if we find the NRM card she has is not signed by me, then I am all lying to you.KK: Uuuh
KA: Nantaba does not even possess a voter’s card as a Uganda. Her name has never been Nantaba. She is Nakasi.KK: Can you imagine?
KA: We only keep dumb on some things; the girl whose documents she used is Seruwagi’s daughter who has wasted away down in Bukoloto. Nantaba Idah.KK: That is someone putting us on tension?
KA: Some things we just ignore. Let me leave that at that. Even when we met the President in Rwakitura, I am the one who caused the chaos in Kayunga, the chaos you must have heard of When the President went to Kayunga to meet village councils and Nantaba had been put on the list, I organized thirty people from the village, sub county and district levels and the NRM executive and told them I had a mission; either the President should cancel meeting or meet us there and then. I passed announcements over the radio that the President would be meeting his voters. He decided to meet us in Rwakitura. I told him what Every one was up to and told him that she said she would fight the Banyarwanda and she challenged me that why can’t I talk about the NAADS money I steal.KK: Who said so?KA: Nantaba. The President asked her why she was against the Banyarwanda.
I told him that the day the Kasubi tombs were set ablaze, Nantaba incited all Kayunga youths and told them that the Munyarwanda had burnt down the tombs, he is left with killing the Kabaka, so won’t you don your backcloths and go to mourn?
I gave him the photos which I think he still has. They donned back cloths and went to Kasubi and that was during the NRM Primaries.KK: don’t you remember how we fought for her to become minister?
KA: Such a situation is not good. The MPs are there and even ministers.KK: Time is up. Go and rest. This one here will see you.KA: But things are not good on the ground Afande; but I will do for you a very good job.KK: Thank you very muchKA: I will tell you all the strategies because there are delegations from outside that come to Uganda; they meet such people but you do nothing.KK: Uuuh
KK: But what wrong did I commit; what did I do to that woman?KA: How would I know Afande?KK: Does she say it?KK: Yes.KA: Recently she said that you want to disorganize herKK: Disorganize her how? She spoke nonsense. She said I incited people to remove her from parliament and that she got it from the public. Public? But Jacqueline was your friend; I don’t know how she lost her mind.
KA: We shall work on that AfandeKK: Thank you. Nani, give him 1M, he will sign.KA: Thank you Afande. We shall be working together.KK: Thank you. We will give you facilitation and you work.
KA: What we shall first tackle is, even before you dispatch the MPs for mobilization, we should first withdraw all those that he had deployed. After frustrating that, the rest we shall achieve.KK: Thank you very muchKA: ---because w e are the very people that have been working with them; we just tell them to withdraw before they land into problems. Who would resist?KK: Thank you very much. Ensure this gentleman’s security’ he should not be exposed.
KA: Because my DPC is not easyKK: Do you want me to inform him?KK: YesKA: At least he deploys one or two policemen for meKK: Though not at this timeKA: YesSS: Whenever you need it
KA: Yes. He should know just in case because I have been in the newsKK: Ok. Go and sleep.KA: Ok Afande.KK: Travel in the morning.
KA: I do not want to travel at nightKK: Where do you sleep? I want him to be safeKA: Ok. My problem is in Kayunga. That is where my children are.SS: It is Ok we shall handleKK: It is OK
SS: Incase of a problem, Let us know
KA: You see I may inform you of the problem when it has already happenedKK: Let us address that on SundayKA: YesKK: We can’t get you private guards now because ---KA: It is possibleSS: I think there is no need. First go to the field.
KA: No I don’t mean at home; I do not need them while I walk but when I am from a mission and I return late at home like at 1AM. Mr. Sebina, I understand the people I work with.KK: Uuuh
KA: When they tiptoe, I can also get to my home safe and soundKK: You see when we deploy for you the police, Jacqueline will know
KA: She won’t know. Like today she called me and told me they were looking for us and I also told her I am already in hiding. She doesn’t know whether I am here or not, she won’t now.
KK: Thank you very much. Nani, can we raise another 3?Nani: Ok
Give him 1 for him and 3 for another groupI had given him 1 at firstThat one was for nani
NANI: OkKK: First sign before you go. Hold on, first check if it is clear. We don’t want to expose youKA: Afande, thank you very much. They said these youths are coming from Madam. Hassan MuwanvuHe has told her that you have given him fuel. When they made here statements, she gave him 5M
KK: And I also gave him. Can you imagine?KA: And he said that a brown police officer called Milondo
KK: Milondo is not brown; he looks like that oneKA: Yes. He lied to her that Milondo took our statements and Kayihura ordered himKK: It seems they were confused of brown. What did Kayihura direct him? First of all, what we do is in the openKA: But for now do not allow them in your board room because they come and sit and wait for long and wait for the reports to arrive
KK: True. Now, Besigye is monitoring me, Lukwago is monitoring me, Sejusa is monitoring me, plus my memberKA: They come and sit in your board room
SS: Let’s go. Leave the GeneralKK: First clearKA: Sebina ---the wife is in the UK but they have already communicated. You have given him fuel; she has given him money to be here.KK: Really
KA: And she directed him where to get it; at Grand Imperial ---and she has told me that she sent my sister who sells suits to drop the money so that those people give me a report why you meet them --- They do not know but because they want money
The do not know what we are up to. This is national issue that may cause mayhem and we all die. They have told her we are meeting and fuel has been delivered. She recorded the vehicle.
KK: How?KA: All along she was with the manager; she told him to take its photos alongside your own vehicle so that they show that you encroach on the government’s fuel for own use.KK: Uuuh. How about when he is doing intelligence work? How will he execute his duties?
KA: ----I wouldn’t’ leave the other side but Afande, the President has promised me a lot. This government has given us peace. I have been chairman in this previous term. I can’t go against him. When things go bizarre tomorrow, will my children survive this?KK: UuuhKA: For them, they will be Safe, but where will I be? Why should I let my country go into shambles? All those lists he gave you are quack. The names he gave you; Pius, Sematimba Gomba, he had given to me too.
KK: She had given to you? So they gave you and gave me too?KA: They found us at Madam’s and she gave them money before they left. The leader was given 1million plus and the rest were given1.5, 1.5KK: How should I go about him?
KA: You are going to limit him. Incase he calls you that he is bringing---KK: Why would I meet them? Why shouldn’t I let them go?KA: Afande, you will find you meet someone who is wearing a watch when it is recording or a memory cardKK: Uuuh
KA: Because the purpose is to watch what you do and he reports and the madam has told me--- That they watch what you do here and they expose it in the news. I will help the State in this mission and he will never get this information on the ground. If Mzee will trust me, I will do the jobKK: No, if I am here it is because I am representing himKA: One person who gossips isKK: But what is wrong with that Kimuli?Kimuli is just there to eat her money. He shows that he studied politics but he is not member of any council, be it for NRM orKK: UuuhFor this one, he is n West Nile, this one is Omara, and this one is Tutu who used to work with Abiriga who said they once would have meetings in the DRC. Omara is the Secretary General for all radios in the North.
KK: You will give them to me on SundayKA: I will. This Modo Modo knows he earns too much, they assign him in the north and is given around 20-25 million. I will prepare all the documents and bring them to you. When we take these, things will be right.KK: Thank you.
KA: They could be the ones who came in here ---- but do not give them audienceSS: Hassan Mu--- has been hereKK: I told himHe told me to brief you---he came with Shakur, so when you are talking to him, let him talk. He has said he won’t come over because they are monitoring him.
KK: I won’t say a lotSS: That Kasirivu went to Luweero and went to the bar. They do not know you had him. Now they have brought this Shakur---
KK: Why have they brought him?SS: Another thing Afande, the other Hajj who ---in Mityana with another person called Twaha
KK: You will say all that on Sunday. We go and sleep, I have programs tomorrow --- No, No I don’t.